The ROAR Podcast: Jason Wright, Project Level

Brice Clinton (00:03)
Most people still talk about women's sports as a movement. Our guest this episode runs a fund that treats it as something entirely different. One of the most undervalued asset classes in sports. In this episode, Caroline and Adams sit down with Jason Wrighton, managing partner at Project Level. If you follow the business of sports, you know the name. Jason spent seven years in the NFL as a running back.

Then a labor lockout became his first real lesson in sports business. That lesson took him to business school, then to McKenzie, and eventually into the president's chair of the Washington Commanders, where he rebuilt a franchise from the inside out and helped clear a path back to RFK. Here's the thread that runs through the whole conversation. Jason doesn't treat women's sports as a cause. He treats it as an asset class. Under researched, overlooked, undervalued.

And he brings an operator's eye to where the value is actually hiding. The new fan who never bought a men's ticket, the purpose-built stadium that quietly reshapes a team's entire capital stack, the mixed-use district that can out-earn the franchise next door. It's the right conversation for the show because Caroline and Adam meet Jason right at the intersection of sports, real estate, and revenue. And it also includes a little Northwestern student athlete reunion in here, too.

I'm Bryce Clinton and this is Aurora Podcast.

Caroline (01:38)
Welcome to the Roar Podcast. I'm your host, Caroline Balvardi, and with me today is Jason Wright, managing partner at Project Level. And today we also have a special format that we're trying out here. We have Adam Grossman playing dual roles as both host and guest. And the reason for this is we thought it'd be kind of fun as we have two 2004 Northwestern grads and student athletes with us. So welcome Jason, and I guess kind of welcome Adam.

Adam Grossman (02:04)
Thanks.

Caroline (02:07)
But yeah, as you know it's is already a founder of Roar, so yes.

Adam Grossman (02:07)
Thank you all.

Jason Wright | Project Level (02:08)
Go cat.

It's

Lake Michigan behind me right there. I'm in our Chicago office today, so it's

Adam Grossman (02:16)
Yeah.

Like Michigan's right down the street. The new Ryan Field's going up right across from where I am. Jason was obviously a star football player at the old Ryan Field, but he's very excited. we promised Caroline we'd limit our talk about Northwestern football, but you can't stop us.

Jason Wright | Project Level (02:21)
Excited.

Yeah.

But I know yeah, I'm not sure I can fulfill their promise.

Caroline (02:33)
we have some time together. So yes, we'll particularly on your college experience towards the beginning. we'll kick it off, Jason, how we often kick off these episodes. If you can tell us a bit about your career journey and how you ended up where you are today.

Jason Wright | Project Level (02:48)
Yeah, I'll give you the the quick highlights. And first of all, thank you for having me. It's an honor to be on with you all, especially all of us doing what I think is really cool and innovative stuff in the space to take advantage of what the momentum in all of sports investing as an asset class, but finding these pockets, whether it's sports anchored real estate, the high ba the high growth on small base and women's sports, it's just really exciting to be innovating alongside y'all. So thank you for having me. quick background on me, I'm from Southern California.

Played college football at Northwestern, go Cats. And then I went to the NFL for seven years. I was a running back for the Atlanta Falcons, Cleveland Browns, Arizona Cardinals. I spent most of my first couple years getting fired every other day. And by the end, I was team captain and labor union leader for the Cardinals. Importantly in 2011, when the owners locked the players out, which was my real intro to sports business. That motivated me to go to business school, went to the University of Chicago, got my NBA.

Landed at McKinsey and Company, became a partner in the DC office and led a global practice. Probably the least sexiest part of McKinsey. It was the G and A practice. So synergies after mergers, cost cutting when you're not hitting targets, big re-orgs and riff, some of the hard PL stuff, automation of the back office. but it actually developed a reputation for me as being the the partner you call when something real complicated is going on. Companies in crisis, or you really have hard decisions to make.

It was in that context I was introduced to the owners of the Washington, then Washington football team. I became the president there in 2020. All hell broke loose right after. And I had the privilege of re-establishing that organization, you know, turning over the workforce, setting a new revenue strategy, rebuilding the season ticket member base as a major part of that. and then selling the team to the new ownership group. Josh Harris, David Blitzer.

Maddie Johnson and the and the group there, and then had the privilege to work with them for two seasons, which was great. it was nice to see everything come to fruition and see the full potential of that organization on all that hard work we did on culture and establishing a new way of working, be able to finally take root, getting some naming rights deals done and ultimately getting a bill passed through Congress that I've been working on for four years, and Josh was able to get it over the line.

So that we could get back to the ancestral home of the team at RFK. And after that, Melody Hobson recruited me to join her in launching a women's sports fund called Project Level, a wholly owned subsidiary of aerial investments, where we're aiming to invest across the entire women's sports ecosystem, teams and leagues, the real estate s opportunities surrounding those teams, the businesses that serve it, like parking janitorials, security, all that stuff.

But also youth sports, which is the pipeline of fans that we think are driving women's sports today, as well as all the ancillary business, analytics companies, ticketing platforms, anything that's gonna make women's sports at this seminal moment stronger on the field court in the pitch or on the P and L, we're trying to make sure we bring that to bear. So that's us, that's my story.

Caroline (05:48)
Adam, if there's anything you want to dig into there. Otherwise, I do want to talk a little bit about your guys' Northwestern experience before we get into the present and more into project level. wanted to dig in a bit your experience as student athletes at Northwestern. Jason, running back football, Adam soccer, and I think were you a goalie? Okay. Like I thought okay, remembered correctly. Okay.

Adam Grossman (06:07)
Yes, a very bad one, but yes, a goalie.

Caroline (06:12)
Jason, you hinted a little bit about this in your answer just now, but what's one thing about being a college athlete that school never taught you and that you've kind of carried through?

Jason Wright | Project Level (06:23)
Mm, that's interesting. I mean, for me it's it's it's myriad. Adam can probably attest to this, but I think the one thing that student athletes at Northwestern in particular develop is the ability to balance competing important priorities. I think there are many college programs where academics and what you do in the classroom is

Important to a degree, but it's kind of about eligibility. It's just about staying on the field. Whereas at Northwestern, almost to a person, every athlete cared deeply about their degree, their pursuits, what that meant for their future. And you're balancing that against a Big Ten program where you have to put in the same work as other folks to be competitive. The time management to be able to do that, the intensity of focus to focus as hard on academics as you are on the on the field.

And having to compete with the best in the world on both of those dimensions. In the classroom, like we're grading on a curve, and the people in class with you are not dummies. And then on the field, you're competing against Big Ten football programs in my case, Big Ten soccer programs in Adam's case. So that ability to compete on two different dimensions at a very high level, and the focus and almost physical energy that it takes to do that, I think, is something unique.

That a Northwestern athlete gets. and then for me personally, I really learned that embracing humility when somebody tells you you're not good. It was the first time in my football career, someone told me I wasn't good. You know, Coach Walker was clear like you're not, you're not quite good enough. And that that I'd never heard. And it was a chance for me to decide how to respond to that. And it taught me to be humble, to be willing to embrace the improvement path.

And that that improvement path is filled with the little things. I ended up getting the starting running back slot because of all the running backs, I was the most willing to step into the A gap and hit a blitzing linebacker. That was it. We had s ton of talented running backs. It was that little thing that was more mental because I'm crazy than anything else that separated me and got me the spot. And that's carried me throughout my career. I don't know what you would add, Adam.

Adam Grossman (08:32)
I have a similar lesson, but coming from a different perspective. So I was often told before I got to college that I was not good as I like to say to a lot of people between the three of us, have one collegiate soccer wins. So we were not as successful as the football team was. And prior to coach Walker coming, and the Rose Bowl in 95, 96, obviously Northwestern football had some challenges on the field too. But I would say.

Two things that we took away and two things that I've really used in my career is grit, You have to bounce back a lot. We obviously lost a lot more than the football team. We had to learn to come back. You as a student, you don't have that kind of in your face lose. there's not always a scoreboard. You are graded on a curve, but you can control to a certain degree, how you perform in the classroom when you're on the field competing against folks. And Jason competed against, some of the best athletes in college. We were competing at times against teams that...

ended up either making the national championship, going to the NCAA tournament. There's a sports illustrated as a platform that obviously is much different than it was when Jason and I were in college, but there used to be a section called faces in the crowd. And there was an Indiana soccer player who was in faces in the crowd who I played against in the next couple of days. And I was like, the guy from faces in the crowd is about to score on me since I was a goalie. And that's exactly what happened. But these are the type of people you're competing against and you're not always going to be successful. And in our case, obviously we weren't successful that often.

You got to come back, you got to play, got to try, you got to see how you go for that. And Jason, throughout his career, already being the NFL PA rep, but you do learn leadership lessons. So as a goalie in particular, you have to organize the defense. You're talking about blocking the A-gap, but those are high stakes, competitive situation with people who are very competitive, who expect you to do certain things. And if you're not doing those things or putting them in a position to be successful, it's really challenging. And that's something you don't always learn, particularly in college.

Because you're not in that situation, unless you're an athlete. putting people in position to be successful at the same time, trying to maximize your own success, is something you try to learn quickly in sports, but it really becomes apparent at the collegiate level.

Caroline (10:30)
I was gonna transition a bit into advice for student athletes today in the in the world of NIL. feel free to add any advice there. But the other piece of it too I did wanna ask, particularly for Jason, is going from pro athlete to then being on the business side of sports and what surprised you about that transition because you've been on both sides of it. So wherever you wanna go with that one, I don't know how much, yeah, you wanna

Jason Wright | Project Level (10:46)
Mm.

Yeah. I don't know how I would advise

these college it's a totally different atmosphere now. And I'm I'm of two minds on it. Obviously I am really supportive of college athletes, especially women athletes, getting the full value of what they bring in their name and their brand and their impact financially. Because many of these people may not have professional opportunities.

Know you have the risk of injury that doesn't allow you to monetize at the next level, even if you have those opportunities at the next stage. And it just feels like the maturation of what used to be a very inefficient market is trying to find its way to properly rewarding athletes for what they do for the universities, but also what they do for the broader sports watching fandom. So like in principle, I'm super in favor. I think in practice.

I think it's really it's really been damaging and challenging for college sports because I think the advantage of what for example I I tend to like to hire college athletes. I'd like to hire it at like to hire when I was running the commanders, I like to hire now. my my number two when I started the commanders, she was a rower at Yale, Amina Amina Edwards, and she's an absolute star. Absolute star, right? Absolute star. And that's what you get from a a college athlete.

Adam Grossman (12:02)
Yeah. We had her on a last week. Yeah.

Caroline (12:05)
Yes.

Jason Wright | Project Level (12:11)
typically. Now I think with the transfer portal and people being able to just up and leave that grit, the resilience to have to push through, to honor your commitment, even if the situation is not ideal, if you don't get along with your coach or your teammates, having to find a way to build bridges culturally and interpersonally, all those were implicit in the skill set of student athletes before. And now I'm not sure because

If you have those conflicts that you used to be forced to work through and developed your character and made you a leader, now you can just say, you know, I don't like it. You don't honor me in the right ways, and I'm leaving. I'm going somewhere else. And I I think en masse that's that's not producing the leaders that college sports has produced historically. And I don't know that we know the impact of that yet. but it'll be challenging in the long run. And then I think the other side is if I'm running

Athletic department. I understand and I would perf perfectly embrace the need to modernize and commercialize, build it more like a pro business. I think that's okay. I don't think we need to be too precious about college sports. They've always been a business. Let's not be too precious about it. so I have no problem with building the revenue functions and starting to run them that way. But if NIL and the money that comes in is effectively a salary cap, I need you to give me the restrictions.

Around that that allow me to run a successful NFL team or MBA team. You gotta not have everyday everyday transfers. I can't imagine having signed a player at the commanders to a five-year deal, and then they just in the middle of year one are like, Yeah, you what, I don't like it. I'm out. What? Like, how how do you actually manage a sustainable business and sustainable organization with that? And especially in the context of higher education where

It's still important to have the right amount of money and attention going to research and the academic environment around these student athletes. So I don't have any advice really except to say if you do care about that other side as a student athlete, that personal development, think twice before you click into the transfer portal. Think about what it means to learn how to honor commitment.

And then get engaged on campus so you get the benefit of growing as a human from the amazing people that are around you. Because even if you stick and stay, being isolated within the sports social sphere is not the full experience of the university. And I'd encourage it happens naturally at Northwestern, but I think at other institutions, getting out of that bubble and getting connected to the students across campus is the most rich experience that you can have. And

can help with that character development and make you a great leader down the road so that if your pro career fizzesles at some point, you have so much more to offer into the space so that you can make a living for your family and have a rewarding career.

Adam Grossman (15:11)
One question I wanted to ask, do you see NIL or college athletics as an investable opportunity for project level,

Jason Wright | Project Level (15:20)
For us, I don't think we will invest directly into it because we are owning teams and leagues. And it's it's it's too close to player representation. And we can't invest directly in player representation and still have a major ownership stake in NWSL, WMBA and and others. so we can't. I think what we would be interested in is the businesses that college athletics are bringing in to help them modernize.

Adam Grossman (15:26)
Yeah.

Jason Wright | Project Level (15:46)
We would be interested in all those. We'd be interested in the real estate opportunities around them, especially as it pertains to facilities and sponsorship opportunities that would funnel to women's programs within college programs at the conference level or at the school level. So anything that's just just around it and not directly in, I think would be of interest to us. Otherwise, the space needs time to mature. You know, we're not an early stage fund. we like to write larger checks than early stage funds and

We like to sort of growth equity at the earliest and it's just super unclear what the model the investment model is gonna be in college yet. So we're gonna we're gonna be a smart third mover if that's if that's a thing. Smart third mover. And we you know, humbly we have we have some real high quality deal flow in the other areas that are like really firm in our target where we know we can add value along with our capital. So we're just stick there.

Adam Grossman (16:24)
Well, not even second, yeah, all the to the third.

Caroline (16:41)
now that we're on the topic, want to really jump in deeper onto project level and what you guys are doing. So can you step back for a second, just the real quick elevator pitch of what project level is and why Ariel went in that direction.

Jason Wright | Project Level (16:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'll

I mean I'll say like just why I'll start with why women's sports. and the story of how this came about. Melody Hobson, who's the co CEO of Aerial Investments. If you've never heard of her, please Google her. She is one of the most inspiring people you will read about, and if you ever had the fortune to meet, but she's you know, she's been the chair of Starbucks, chair of DreamWorks, she's on the board of JP Morgan. she's an icon in the space and

She's also on the personal side through her family. They've been investors in sports quietly for many years. Large chunk of the White Sox, a few other investments. And then they became public with the Denver Broncos in the Walton Penner cap table. and so they have a a large chunk there. And once she was public, people started reaching out to her about various sports opportunities. And of course, women's sports came to her as this, you know, female executive icon.

And she realized very quickly that women's sports fit the Ariel model of investing, which Ariel's traditional model started 40 years ago was to look at under-researched, overlooked, and undervalued parts of the market, and then do what other people were unwilling to do, which is the hard research and rigorous analysis to go in and figure out how to create an asset class from that and how to pick winners from losers by really rigorous analysis.

John Rogers pioneered that in the early 80s. Melody has continued to do that alongside John. And that led Ariel to be the pioneers in small and mid-cap stocks. And when she saw women's sports, she thought, this is under-researched, overlooked, and undervalued, just based on some of the numbers. She saw all the growth trajectory, but then saw that despite having more than 15% of the viewership, even in the renewed $1 billion more value WMBA contract, it's still

Only about eight or four or five percent of the total MBA contract value. So there was this difference that in gap that she knew would close, and that's where you look for value. she also saw that valuations were just slightly out of whack. So for example, we would all consider the NHL a major league. the NHL had viewership of around 400 or 450,000.

regular season viewers per game this last season. It was a good season for them. the average NHL team is worth about 2.2 billion. And those aren't direct correlations, but viewership over time should be driving the value of teams on down from the league. The WMBA averages over 970,000 viewers in the regular season games last year. And last year they were around 250 million average valuation. Now they're at just over 400 million in average valuation.

So there's a huge gap here. Now that won't close all the way. I don't expect that to close all the way. There still exists some strange gender penalty in the way that we evaluate these leagues. But Melody saw that gap. And that says that's the kind of value that Ariel looks for when you really dig into the numbers and you research the market. And then she said, Let's go and figure out how we become more rigorous than others. And that's when she went and recruited me because she thought we

I will find great investing talent because we have great investing talent in and around Ariel's relationships here. And we'll continue to bring on more great talent, you know, more and more folks that have track record in this space as we continue to build the fund. but I want she said, I want to go find an operator because the way that we pick winners from losers is to really understand the PL, the drivers of the business. And when we come with our capital, we have a true value creation plan that comes from experience and not just paper.

And haircutting estimates and hair cutting targets. And and so that was her, that was her vision and how we got here. And then once I joined, our thesis, which I touched on a little bit earlier, is really based on what we have found are the the drivers of this moment in women's sports. And I think there are three things. One, you all have been a part of, certainly John, certainly what he did at Hair Splitzer and other places.

but it's the modernization of men's sports, the professionalization of men's sports that's really happened only in the last 15 years, is one of the reasons that this moment, catalyzed by Caitlin Clark and the WMBA, is commercially viable versus just a fan craze and a flash in the pan. Because all these businesses built up around men's sports, the sales services companies, the analytics firms, you know, the elevates, the legends of the world, the

the populaces, the CAI cons, the all these folks have developed around and really matured over the last fifteen years in a way that can support the commercial momentum of sports. And so women's sports at this moment can then draft upon that as long as they're able to get access to best in class capabilities. And that's one of our goals is to invest in those companies as they grow writ large, but make sure women's at women's sports gets access to those. So that's one.

factor why we're seeing this. The second, we are, and at least in the US, we are 20 years into family spending real money on girls' use sports. And there's a whole generation of families that one, from a fan perspective, do not see difference between them. The the generation of, they don't dunk, this isn't real basketball is is is past. there are even, and we see even in these young millennial families, a preference for women's sports over men's.

and we see that in some of the data that we're looking at. And so that momentum that has come through youth sports has changed the mindset of a generation and desensitized families to spending money on season tickets. because you're spending thousands of dollars for your girls' programs. It's not a big deal to spend four hundred dollars on a season ticket to the Denver Summit FC. and we really follow youth sports as a nose for the leagues that we think are going to get to the next level because that's what we think is creating.

The fandom. And then the last one is something we discovered after making our investment at Denver Summit FC, having great success out of the gate where we sold 8,500 season tickets in three weeks and have a large waiting list behind that. it allowed us to dive into that fan base. And I can't say the exact numbers. I've gotten handslapped for that before, but it is.

An unusually low percentage of that season ticket member base and that wait list that have ever bought a season ticket for a men's team in Denver. And it was so low that we went and talked to now six WMBA teams about their season ticket member base. WMBA teams that are owned by their NBA counterparts. So same building, same marketing, sales team overlap. They had even lower percentage number overlap than we saw.

In Denver, and those numbers are going down. So this is a net new fan that was not financially participating in men's sports before. And that is an exciting thing that bodes to a longer run in women's sports. they you know they're probably following on social media, they may buy a jersey or two, but they weren't seasoned ticket holders, they weren't thinking about bringing their businesses to bear on behalf of them, they weren't bringing the whole family.

they weren't watching long the full long form games, they're probably catching highlights. They are doing that for women's sports. And that demographic is exciting. And I think it's also exciting to the major men's leagues. I think it's in large part why the NFL is launching NFL Pro Flag League and really emphasizing the women's product. We're we're invested in that cap table. We're very excited about that that product. it's why in League One volleyball, another one of our holdings, which is both a youth league and a pro league.

We're seeing the teams as the league sells into individual owners, they're going to major men's professional owners or people with those interests. The San Antonio Spurs and David Blitzer got the Austin team. The McNair's and the Houston Texans took the Houston team. Because this is the next top-of-funnel build for men's sports, a fan that's been elusive to them. And so that's very exciting for us. So those are the the tailwinds around which we've built our thesis. And so that's why we're going in and teams in the mature women's leagues.

it's why we're investing in the real estate around it, the live, work, play environments that can be accretive to the PL of the team. I mean, this is your wheelhouse, but accretive to the PL of the team, but also have a different hold period, cash into the portfolio sooner via lease payments, rent payments, stuff like that. That diversifies the profile for our investors, which is great as well. Those service businesses around them are so important for guest experience to get off to the right start and

We as former operators know those businesses so well. Youth sports is because that's the driver of fandom. And wow, those are great margin businesses. And you need people coming in and doing doing youth sports roll-ups with the right values, not in a exploitative way, which is I think one of the best things about the Love Model is the way they take care of the local coaches and the players, improve safety, think about instruction, character formation while still building an a a strong business model.

That helps to be a sustainable org. And then all the businesses around them, you know, there's an analytics company that we're looking at that we really like. even ahead of confirming any investment in them, we've brought them to some of the major women's leagues as they've contemplated decisions that these folks are known for on the men's side, and it's materially changed their decision-making process. And so that's the kind of stuff that excites us, and that's what we're trying to create with this fund. We're trying to be smart.

We're returns focused, but ultimately this is about making sure we do our part to see women's sports continue, not just a 10 year run, which is gonna be on irrespective, but a 30-year run where this becomes such a solid high growth asset class that everyone's clamoring for it.

Adam Grossman (26:47)
on the data side and the analytics side in particular that you mentioned. That's something obviously we focus on at Roar. And that's what we're focused on is bringing the best in class analytics technology, AI driven insights to women's sports. What I think is really interesting about what Jason said is that we see similar things in the data. There's some misconceptions about women's sports fans that only women follow women's sports. That's not true. Men are followers and fans of women's

that the personas, the demographics, the behaviors of women's fans are very, very attractive to corporate partners. So there's historically been exactly what Jason's saying, that there's been this community aspect there's a business case and a strong business case from a commercial partnership perspective. And in terms of attracting not just who you think is the audience of women's sports fans, but really targeting attractive audiences that drive real revenues and brand growth.

The other thing from an artificial intelligence perspective is, and some of the work we're doing with the Chicago Sky and some other teams that we're going to talk about soon is enabling AI insights and making artificial intelligence and being able to look at all that data, whether it's from inside the venue, understanding fans, looking at real estate, looking at practice facilities, looking at player valuations and player analysis. You can really bring those things to bear and then you can...

point to technology from our perspective, through our smart DOS platform where we're integrating these multiple different data sets to drive insights and decision making. it is exactly what Jason was talking about, the professionalization of sports generally, and as Jason was mentioning, in men's and women's sports, the desire to use the best of breed and technology insights, artificial intelligence.

There is real alpha in women's sports in particular, if you can bring the best business practice, the best data, the best technologies, the best platforms. Again, that's obviously something we are really laser focused on at Roar. It's something obviously project level is really laser focused on. And we'll talk about that in more detail, but it really is important to enable decision makers to have that information because the opportunity is so great. And when you give the right platforms, the right tools, the right companies, the right access to the right people to drive the right outcomes.

That's where you really create value and obviously project level is up for a front of that.

Jason Wright | Project Level (28:50)
One hundred percent. I I could not agree more. And historically, world class capabilities like you and many others bring have been gate kept from women's sport because there's not typically an outbound sales or, you know, a sort of word of mouth. And it's just like sat within, you know, major leagues or a few teams within men's sports. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us to make sure that

Adam Grossman (29:01)
Yeah.

Jason Wright | Project Level (29:16)
Women's teams are getting access to this so that they can accelerate. And there's an opportunity as the tech stack of the world evolves so rapidly that at this moment of professionalization for women's teams, they can build in a modernized way from jump and not have to rebuild some of the business processes and decision-making process and information flows that will be hard for major men's teams to to retrench. And so I'm so happy to hear you're doing this work with the Sky and others because.

The level of fan insights that I was clamoring for at the commanders, I think you'll be able to get for them sooner. And that allows them to understand who is the neck the next fan base, who is untouched, what's the overlap with youth programs in the area. And those are the kind of insights that we've seen drive such outsized performance at Denver. You know, and we did basic best practices alongside the ownership group there in Denver. We hired a a a world-class team. We didn't go

Bottom of the bucket, we went to folks with real experience that we evaluated the same way we would with men's teams and tried not to spare expense in the process. That's one of the challenges. You gotta pay for it ahead of the revenue you're gonna see. But we ended but it ended up paying off. Basic practices around pricing, fan identification, marketing practices and outreach, top of funnel build. Our home opener set a record for a a domestic women's professional match.

Professional league match, 63,000 people in Denver Bronville Stadium. And we've sold out every game since at the MLS Stadium in Denver. And so it a little goes a really long way. Capabilities like yours are going to help teams in outperform in an incredible way in the in the near term.

Adam Grossman (31:00)
I think you bring up a really interesting point that women's sports teams have a unique opportunity because there aren't legacy systems and platforms. And this won't be always a plug for Aurora and what we do, but it's just, think, instructive in this instance is, AI is so new and so native, and we've natively built AI and agenting workflows into our smart DOS platform to do the things that Jason's talking about. If you're going to try to identify new fans, because there are new fans that don't overlap,

Jason Wright | Project Level (31:16)
Into.

Adam Grossman (31:25)
men's professional sports, you have to find them, you have to expand the fan universe and you have to be able to target them effectively. And I think women's sports, it's novel in these investments and particularly institutional capital coming into women's sports like project level, it allows for these types of investments where instead of having to build or rely on legacy technology that doesn't natively integrate artificial intelligence, you can create these agentic workflows.

you can create what we call contextual engineering, smart districts as a service, smart agents, smart insights so that you can drive decision-making because you can build this from scratch in the way that drives what is uniquely and idiosyncratic valuable to women's sports. And it is finding these fans, is finding these partners, it is finding these opportunities, and it is being able to do that at speed and at scale to really take advantage of what's happening in women's sports.

Jason Wright | Project Level (32:06)
No head.

Adam Grossman (32:16)
I think that's is very much underplayed is that women's sports is happening at the right time to maximize the opportunity that's available, particularly from a product technology analytics and data capabilities perspective.

Caroline (32:28)
I also want to add a little anecdotal story as we transition into talking about the mixed use opportunities as well. But the importance of data too for public perception. There's still a lot of ignorance in the general public. Adam and I had a nice trip together to Denver a few months ago and we were in the Uber together and the driver, we were just talking about work stuff and he was overhearing, and then he jumped in and he was like, what you guys do?

sounds like something sports related and all these things. And we had gone by the Denver Summit Future Stadium site and this guy goes on, why are we putting public funding or any public support towards women's sports or women's stadium? And I decompose myself a little bit. I was like, thank God Adam is here because I can give the emotional part of it and anecdotal data, but having Adam was so valuable because it was like very

Jason Wright | Project Level (33:07)
How?

Caroline (33:16)
factually. I think it's sixty three thousand, selling out tickets and all these things. by the end of the ride, there was this whole education for him. And by the end he was like, I didn't know that. And I put that out there too, because there is a lot coming from not so nice place sometimes, but sometimes it's ignorance and the more you can educate each other this is like a real business opportunity. I think there's still room there for the, general public too and also converting those into fans and,

Maybe that guy's gonna come to more games. But Yeah.

Adam Grossman (33:38)
First, I

want to say that's the first time somebody's really said thank God Adam's here. the second question to Jason actually is, guys obviously have and continue to raise money from LPs. What is their familiarity with women's sports? I know you talk to family purposes and ownership groups, but as you're expanding the universe of potential LPs, what's their background? What's their experience been? And what's their knowledge about

Jason Wright | Project Level (33:42)
Yeah.

Caroline (33:44)
Right.

Jason Wright | Project Level (33:53)
Yeah.

Yep, yep. I'd say generally speaking, they've said we've we've heard of it. We've heard of a couple of the stories of some some big exits on big multiples, but we haven't really dove into it. And we have three different types of LPs and they're a little at least in our first close, we got a different set coming with our our our coming closes, but the first set, there's a set of men's professional sports owners that are some of our largest first set of LPs.

major leagues across the world. And their investment came with this. We understand that this is a high growth part of the business. The check there's a chance that there's synergies with our existing physical footprint, with our brands. And we want to learn more about this fan as we think about growing our leagues in the future. And before we put our direct capital in, we want to observe through you all and learn this space. Right. And

Adam Grossman (34:55)
That's right. Yeah.

Jason Wright | Project Level (34:58)
allow somebody to do the work that we can't put the time into right now as we contemplate and in that process create co investment opportunities that they could jump on if they suddenly feel like the time is right. And that has absolutely panned out for us with our LPs to date. Some have gone directly into women's sports now, even after the short time of seeing what's happened in our fund. Others are approaching co invest opportunities with us on active deals. and so that's one bucket.

The second are hundreds of millionaire and billionaire women. Or family offices where the next generation are women. And in those spaces, they have paid more attention to women's sports and typically have just been looking for something that is a model that balances both their immediate understanding and care for the mission, along with a rigorous returns-based view. So something that

isn't afraid to talk about returns and exits alongside the mission and feel like there's that dual bottom line occurring, not just one or the other. And I think that's been compelling to them in the space, but those folks have paid attention. They have paid attention to what's going on. And then there's a set of folks that were just private equity guys. Big private equity firms have their own funds, some sports and entertainment adjacent, others not.

Some that are bankers in the space within sports media entertainment and they just see the arbitrage opportunity in women's sports in this moment. It is math for them, as well as trust in the institution of Ariel. because as a as a new fund, it's often hard to get those folks who have gone around, but we don't feel like a new fund because we're part of a bigger network. Like our back office is completely mature and has been running for decades and

Adam Grossman (36:24)
Yeah.

Jason Wright | Project Level (36:44)
and so you get the experience of a mature fund from an LP experience with this new and innovative team working on the ground on the deal pipeline. And so I think that's attracted those folks. And those folks, they they paid tangential attention. They've just sort of they they've seen valuations go up, they seen multiples expand. Even when they see a tiny multiple contraction, like, yeah, this is still on a I recognize this pattern from other industries. I want it.

Adam Grossman (37:13)
And then just a quick follow up on that. You mentioned diversification within the asset class was very interesting. Obviously, you were just talking about team valuations, but obviously you guys have a larger breadth and scope. And you mentioned the real estate and analytics and diversification. Is that something that, whether private equity, ownership or otherwise, the investors have been interested in, excited about?

Jason Wright | Project Level (37:33)
Yeah, I think

I'd I'd give it ninety percent see that as a major advantage to what they hear from other funds, especially in the women's sports space. Especially in the women's sports space. and I think it gives them confidence on two dimensions. One that we actually know we're talking about as former operations, because when you dive into why those businesses, you know, we can talk extensively about having done joint ventures with them, innovative products with them, all this stuff in the past. so ninety percent love it.

Adam Grossman (37:42)
Exactly.

Jason Wright | Project Level (37:57)
And it's also the you know the the blended return profile looks different. You know, just teams and leagues is still a very viable strategy and it has done incredibly well. But what it means is it's you're on the lower end of IRR with these huge exits down the road. And that's fine. And that is a fine profile. but ours at a blended level one doesn't require us to do exits all at the same time. We can do with different hold periods across all these sub asset categories. So

We're not out in market trying to get max value for an asset alongside seven others simultaneously. So one, it staggers our ability to exit. And DPI is really important, really important. And not not talked about enough in the sports space. So that's one. And then two, at a blended level, the IRR and Moek, when you bubble it all up, is much more competitive with a traditional private portfolio. And some of our early

LPs told us this. I need you to be competitive with the rest of my private investments. You know, the bar remains high. And the great thing is there are so many good businesses within sports media and entertainment that either are serving women's sports or want to serve women's sports, but we can absolutely make that happen in a rigorous and disciplined way.

Caroline (39:15)
So I want to dig in a little bit into the mixed use surrounding stadiums and arenas a little bit more. And so where do you see Jason and feel free to chime in Adam as well, but the opportunity around women. So right now it's a lot of the training centers starting to have some more dedicated facilities specifically for women. So you see the Denver Summit, things like that, but where do you see that happening in a much higher level or

More so continuing to be more the kind of the training facilities where the

Jason Wright | Project Level (39:45)
I I think first

first talk about training facilities and and purpose built for women's stadiums and then the broader real estate opportunities around it, which I think you will speak even more equ eloquently on than me. but we are we have a very strong perspective that purpose built training facilities and stadiums for women's teams is the best thing that a team can do if the space is available. it doesn't necessarily make sense if you're under the same umbrella as a men's team, but if there's any independence.

It makes a ton of sense. there we're writing a white paper right now that will come out in the next few weeks along with some of our construction and design partners about the long term value of a purpose built women's stadium and what that brings to a team in terms of revenue and EBITDA potential over the long term. And it is it is mind blowing. It is mind blowing. and so we think that everybody can yes, go ahead.

Adam Grossman (40:35)
Jason just sorry

hold on that point. Why is that the case? Why are you know? I we've seen that I

Jason Wright | Project Level (40:40)
Yeah, what are

the levers? I mean, first, first is captive sponsorship opportunities. If you're sharing, if you're renting a facility, you don't get access to those sponsorship assets unless there's ample digital signage. And even that, people are going to take a cut. You're just, you, you have no leverage in the deals to improve your your PL. and you certainly don't get the big, the big things that are game changing like naming rights around that. The additional programming.

That can come into a stadium when it's wholly owned. And and the right size for women's venues right now at least is somewhere between, depending on the sport, 12,000 and 20,000, you know, maybe 22,000. There's a good range there that is the maximizing value, the the the value maximizing capacity point. And that capacity point is interesting because that

positions it different than a major men's outdoor venue that attracts a different set of events that may not already be coming to that jurisdiction. festivals and concerts and civic civic events there are so many things that are looking for that capacity level that can't fill out a major stadium and don't want to do indoors somewhere I'm thinking in WSO right now that it

That there is ample incremental revenue alongside that. And then there's creative things you can do to help your capital stack when it comes to it. So our practice facility in Denver, I can't say too many of the details, but we did a great long-term deal there on naming rights. And it ultimately allowed us to leverage that naming rights deal to collateralize our debt.

so we did not have to put out the same outlay to get debt. We got more favorable terms that allowed us to do the practice facility and temporary stadium at a lower cost to the owners of the team. And that is a huge benefit to us. Not to mention the obvious stuff for the players, facilities that are more tailored to their needs. Like I didn't realize this because I obviously grew up in men's sports, but like

We're used to having completely open locker room. It's a communal space, all that. Women athletes do not want that. It is the lead it's the last thing they want. They want privacy, they want boosts. So the design of it for what's psychologically best for the players is completely different as well. and so on all dimensions, it makes sense to go this direction. And now you still got to be rigorous about getting the right deal done. You still do need some.

support from jurisdictions, you know, it does not tie out, you know, typically doing it on your own. but with all those factors in place, it's the best thing for these teams.

Adam Grossman (43:24)
I know you were talking about the mixed use opportunity. think that collateralization and the lower cost of capital from the debt via the practice really is extremely interesting. You should definitely check that on the white paper that's coming out because that's one of the, it's an innovative deal, not just in women's sports, but sports more broadly. I didn't mean to derail you when you were talking about mixed use.

Jason Wright | Project Level (43:39)
Yes.

No, I

was gonna jump to mixed use, but as I said, I mean you guys won't you guys will speak to that even better than than I will, but then the the add-on opportunity is to bring to fore at this scale of women's stadiums and venues. what we've seen be successful at the star in Plain West. I was just at the star for my nephew's graduation. He graduated from Plano West High School. And this is a proper arena that is getting

A ton of volume that has truly built up around it. what you see at the battery in Atlanta, the small four acres around Wrigleyville here that the Cubs and Marquee have smartly redone. It's less obvious, but it's just as effective. And you all have seen this around the world through through Surge at the at the parent company level. some some really remarkable things being done. We think the opportunity in women's sports is potentially.

more powerful because of the scale of these facilities. The additional foot traffic that it would bring, the impact on the PL of the team because it's a smaller base is more substantial. The additional sponsorship opportunities are more substantial on a base by base basis. And so that not only builds into the day-to-day PL for the team, but then gets counted in the way that entities look at valuation for these teams.

You know, it's hard, it's hard right now for the Sporticos and SBJs and CNBCs of the world to really fully value the real estate properties of teams. I just don't think anyone has nailed that formula. I I hope that it becomes more and more valued directly in those valuations going forward, because those do set the floor for negotiations in the space when something's gonna transact. but when you have the live, work, play environment around it.

depending on the structure of the deal, there can be more direct impact on the revenue of the business, which they do count wholly and fully in those valuations. And so there's a net, net benefit to the team in the short term and the long term.

Adam Grossman (45:39)
Yeah, I mean, we try to do that in the white paper that we published on mixed use developments. We did an analysis of the battery and its enterprise franchise value based off the revenue and profitability and operating margins. was, and what's interesting, even if you just look at the publicly reporting data, what has been reported is the profitability of the battery now exceeds the profitability of the team and its assets. It's a much larger revenue base.

Jason Wright | Project Level (45:59)
Believe it.

Adam Grossman (46:02)
but it's roughly a hundred million dollars top line from the real estate and $61 million bottom line, which is obviously hugely profitable with a team. Yeah, the team in a whole, think it's like 550 and 55 million in bottom line. So, you know, we, and that's what we found a little bit in our model is almost the value of the real estate was not quite, but it was basically doubling the enterprise value of the team. That's not necessarily going to happen in every situation, but it shows the level of opportunity, right? If you can integrate mixed use and exactly what Jason's saying,

Jason Wright | Project Level (46:09)
That's awesome.

Adam Grossman (46:31)
That was a question we actually asked Amina in the context of the Boston legacy and everything they're doing with White Stadium, but are there specific opportunities around women's sports as opposed to the opportunity more broadly? And you articulated some of the benefits, right? If you can change the programming inside the venue, the sponsorship opportunities, that can change. And it's also a different fan base and a different people who would potentially be attracted that actually only improves or potentially improves.

all those kind of value matrix. So it's interesting to see, right? Obviously that was part of your thesis.

Jason Wright | Project Level (47:02)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's exactly. Yep. And we're excited to we're excited to see that space evolve. And again, women's sports in many ways can be more nimble than men's sports in some of this. And frankly, it's an easier discussion with the community. We all know the longer term benefits of girls' participation in sports and pro women's teams are the role modeling that drives that participation. I think it's

More than ninety five percent of women in the C suite in America were high school or college varsity athletes.

Caroline (47:31)
Yeah. This is Lloyd research, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Wright | Project Level (47:34)
Yeah, it's it's like that that is

that is worth preserving. And you know, insofar as we get world class women's teams creating that role modeling and driving participation in these markets, it's gonna be better for all these jurisdictions overall. And so when you go to public officials, you don't typically have the same argument of billionaire welfare and handouts and all that stuff when the social impact

Of what it means for girls and women is so super clear.

Adam Grossman (48:03)
Yeah, just don't go to individual Uber drivers. They might not have the same opinion.

Jason Wright | Project Level (48:06)
That's right.

That's right. They might not have to perspective. That man is very much in the minority in Denver, actually, because Denver gets it. Denver gets it. So

Caroline (48:07)
But we can hide them one at a time.

That's why he needed to be in the Uber with us so we could catch yes,

ones who aren't on that. But so as we kind of close out, I think we'll we'll let Jason go. but wanted to kind of summarize a bit. You've touched on some of this and have probably already mentioned some of these things, but just can you kind of talk about what you are most excited about for the future of women's sports and or things that people are sleeping on? And again, some of these you may have touched on, but just kind of to summarize or if there's like very specific things from your point of view.

Jason Wright | Project Level (48:41)
Yeah,

I think we continue to be excited about the NWSL, the trajectory in Denver, super excited. and that in all the mature leagues, which is really the WNBA and the NWSL. we're very intrigued by European women's football. these huge brands that should do incredibly well globally, but without the same commercial container that allows American sports and especially American women's sports to do well. Part of that's cultural, part of that's the the structure that exists around.

teams and leagues in Europe. And that's one where I man, if we can we can crack that code alongside other partners in Europe in the 10 years of this fund, I think we'll have done a huge service to global women's sports. So that's interesting to us. we love youth sports and League One volleyball is just absolutely crushing it. Love has grown from around fourteen thousand girls when we invested to over twenty seven thousand girls.

That's a little over a year, a year and a few months since we invested. they do a great job of aligning values with the clubs they acquire. And because the pro league has done so incredibly well, it is gonna be the next major women's league. They've got a preponderance of American Olympians. I think most people, based on the the competition on the court, would say it's now third behind Turkey and Italy as far as global leagues, only in its second season.

And so the rise of that league has also gotten local club owners to want to affiliate here because of the excitement around building the next major league. And so it's allowed the business to grow really well. and and that one just from what we see on paper as an investment, but even more so the way it's setting the mark for how to do youth sports with the right values and double bottom line, I think is really important at this moment. So I'm super excited about that.

I'm excited about the ancillary businesses around this. Like I'm looking for that next great you know, staffing company, that next great security company that's really leveraging AI to to help them streamline the ingress-egress process while increasing the likelihood of finding offenders within this environment. Really important for women's sports, personal protection and personal security as well, analytics companies that are doing great.

Cool stuff in men's sports and bringing that capability over. You know, I mentioned one earlier without saying, but what you all are doing, what they are doing, super exciting for this space. and and some of the sports that I'm excited about and that could become major leagues over time or that are that have league concepts. Like AUSL is a great one. we you know, we're we tend to be a little later stage in our investment, but like what John and them are doing is fantastic.

the s college softball ecosystem that builds into that is is world class. the Japanese leagues are strong and have a different schedule. So they can be they can be compatriots in this. So there's like a lot to love about softball. We're already in volleyball. There we're in flag football. There's a lot to love about track and field lacrosse, like what the Rables have done with PL and WLL. I think there's great oper that the growth there is gonna be fantastic and

We'll always look for ways to partner with folks like that. But I also wonder the rest of the lacrosse ecosystem, the showcases, the opportunities, all of that. What can PLL do, especially on the women's side, to bring all of that under a banner of what I think can be a super exciting league as well? so there's so much, there's so much I'm excited about. I could I could keep talking. I think I need to track and field. I hope a model emerges in track and field because I think that's great.

Caroline (52:11)
Can come on again. We gladly back and

Jason Wright | Project Level (52:16)
Alexis is doing something cool with Atlos. Michael Johnson made a great run with Grand Slam track with the the the the competitiveness on the on the track and now they've retrenched and hopefully they can get the business model in a great space this time. I just think there's so much the sky's the limit and we're excited to be there with capital but also real partnership when it does.

Caroline (52:41)
Amazing. Well, unless anybody else has anything else they want to share, we can go and close. Yes. Thank you so much to our two two thousand four Northwestern alum for coming on today. And yes, we'll we'll see you next time.

Adam Grossman (52:45)
Thanks.

Jason Wright | Project Level (52:54)
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Adam Grossman (52:56)
Thanks.

Caroline (52:56)
Thank

you. Bye.