The ROAR Podcast: Jon Fascitelli

# ROAR Podcast: Jon Fascitelli
**Guest:** Jon Fascitelli
**Date:** 2025-10-29
**YouTube URL:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD-LPbJT6FI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD-LPbJT6FI)
**Source:** YouTube auto-generated captions (no speaker diarization)

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(0:06) Welcome to the Revenue Above Replacement podcast. I'm your host, Adam Gman. With us today is John Vasatility. John, welcome to the program. >> Great to be here. >> Yeah, great to see you. Great to talk to you and I'm glad to have you on. And first question we will have, which is the same first question we have for all of our guests, is can you walk us through your career date and tell us how you got to the position you're in today? >> Sure. Well, today I'm currently the founder CEO of Surge, which is a real estate development company focused on sports and entertainment. And how I got here, well, it's been a a fun and interesting journey. I grew up in New Jersey, went to high school in Manhattan, went to college in Rhode Island, and after which was in investment banking, then went on to business school, following which was at Colony Capital. Colony was a $45 billion alternative asset manager focused on real estate private equity and one of the first deals that was done at the organization was the acquis while I was there was the acquisition of PSG and that was kind of the be the aha moment from which we got involved with a project around Giant Stadium at the time called Zan they do now the American dream which well it while the project itself went through mult multiple refinancings and challenges. Also kind of looked at the opportunity around stadium and and development around it.

(1:32) And from there that led me to a host of things with Blitz, with David Blitzer, one of the members at Blackstone, and then Josh Harris, which which led to about a decade as the CEO and founder of the development company within Harris Blitzer, uh, where we were focused on doing real estate projects for the 76ers, ultimately the Commanders, Guardians, Devils, and everything else in the portfolio where we were looking at stadium renovations. new stadium designs and then mixed use around it. And that was kind of the ultimately the genesis of Surge which was a spin out of Harris Blitzer Sports and Entertainment.

(2:13) >> Yeah. I think if for a lot of our members of our audience, they've potentially heard me talk about sports anchored mixeduse development or sports and real estate anchored mixeduse development. You are the if not the foremost expert, one of the foremost experts on the topic in the world. Can you just talk about what that means? like what are all those different terms mean and how did you get you know kind of interested and excited in pursuing these opportunities? >> Sure. Yeah, it's it's it's a great it's a great space. I think as we've seen the evolution of media media content and consumption, what that really has translated to is is more shows, events, and people going to them. And so these arenas and stadiums which once upon a time when the sports teams weren't playing were more dormant are now activated on on a daily and regular basis. And and so you could see arenas with upwards of 200 to 250 events a year. That translates into 5 to 7 million people of of foot traffic. And once you get that many people going to a location, you can build out the retail.

(3:17) So, I mean, if you think about it today, when when you go to a game, it's nice to go early and catch a dinner. It's great to stay late and catch a drink or an ice cream and and it's it's it's that foot traffic and activity that can drive retail development. Once the retail is in place, people want to live around it. So, you get the residential and then people want to work there. you get the office and all of a sudden you have live, work, play, which is is kind of common vernacular now. But but what that really translates into is the ability to create vibrant community around sports and entertainment.

(3:55) And what that then translates into is is interesting opportunities for investment, interesting opportunities to enhance fan experience, interesting opportunities for community, and then interesting opportunities for cities, states, and sovereigns to benefit from from the enhanced economic activity and increase in in tax revenue. So what we're talking about today when we say mixed use anchored entertainment and sport districts is what we're talking about is is these vibrant ecosystems that are ripe for investment and that benefit multiple stakeholders and today translates into an opportunity for institutional capital and institutional development capability and that's kind of what surge provides. Yeah, I want to talk about all those in more detail particularly all the opportunities you mentioned across all those different categories but I think it's good to which I often say a lot is always good to start at the beginning you know you've been at the forefront of this while this is you know mixeduse developments have gotten more attention particularly more recently this you were talking about obviously with Metife Stadium can you talk about what things were like in the past and kind of some of the evolutions you've seen in this space over time before you started search >> yeah look I think in the early '9s you would put a venue as into the hinterlands because you were doing 40 to 60 activations and the rest of the time it was dark and so but these big parking lots around it and and and people would go sparingly and the venues frankly weren't profitable. I think today with this heightened activity, they could be put in the center of kind of downtown cores. And what we're seeing is is that they can revitalize communities or or generate new communities and that they're really good economic tools that can be used for sound economic policy. And so and so with that increased activity and I mean I think as like an economic as an economic cheeseburger to like a star to a starving city, right? like like like there's a real opportunity to use these venues as as a tool to to drive growth and and and so I mean I think the evolution is I think there's been a lack of capital and a lack of expertise on the one end and then on the other hand you have team owners that that when they step into ownership have incredible civic responsibility to to create a a arena that that that's great for the fans and and they focus on the front office and winning championships.

(6:35) They're not necessarily in most cases real estate developers and and they and they're already financially on the hook for quite a bit. I mean, they have a lot of wealth concentrated in team. They've got a lot of wealth concentrated in a venue. And so even though these facilities can generate billions of dollars of opportunity for development, they don't necessarily want to be on the hook for the cost. And so so you have this combination of not a will a willingness to write the check on the one hand and and a lack of the development capability on the other hand. I mean, they're team owners, real estate developers, and so and so it's just so the opportunity is there, but the capability isn't. and and and that's kind of where we come in with with both the investment capital as well as the development expertise to build and where we see this go I mean and so we've seen this first it sort of happened more accidentally called the the pod what think about the Padres or think about Wembley kind of where cities have spawned around it and there's been no beneficiaries relates to the venue to kind of evolutionary evolutionary steps of success on smaller scales. And I think today what we really see is is that is that there's really an opportunity to superersize it and so to just go bigger like to acquire multiple to tens of city blocks to to be much more dramatic and impactful and and what the opportunity is. and and there's frankly there still remains hesitancy on the team side and on the consultant side because they don't necessarily have the capabilities or wherewithal to do it and so again that's where we come in filling filling that void superersizing it and so I mean that's really that's really the crux of where we see this going.

(8:27) Yeah, let's I this is probably a good pathway to talk about surge explicitly. You talk about what you guys do in particular when you mentioned that team ownership groups or consults don't have the capabilities you know on the development side and particularly on the development side. Can you talk about in more detail a what search does and b how you provide those capabilities particularly on the real estate development side? >> Yeah sir. So so we're so we're a combination of of sports expertise and real estate expertise. We were a spin out of Harris Blitzer sports and entertainment. They were an anchor investor along with CA Delaware North and a host of others. Then we we put together a board as well that was kind of a blended expertise that has the lead director from MSG. It has the president of Kroni Sports and Entertainment. It has some of our investors. But then on the real estate side, it also has the former CEO and chairman of Brookfield and former head of Fernato DC. the former CEO and chairman of Brookfield is also the head of our investment committee. And from there, we've built out an organization where today we have directly and indirectly about 140 people working globally and and it represents the best in real estate in the sport.

(9:44) And so we're bringing this hardcore institutional capability of both managing capital where we could be the fiduciary of billions of dollars on the one hand and on the other hand we can we we're bringing kind of the best and the brightest from the development universe so that we can sit down with teams. We can sit down with cities, states and sovereigns and we can say hey this this is your sports asset. this is the surrounding and we can put together a plan that envisions a future of mixed use development. Then we can finance it with our private equity and then we can build and operate it with our capabilities so that we can deliver anywhere from three to five and now in some cases 10 to 20 billion dollar projects and we can and we can do it both domestically in the US as well as in Europe the GCC in Asia. And so we're create we're creating the first of its kind global platform that's that's exclusively focused on sports and entertainment real estate.

(10:44) >> And then one of the other questions that or that came up from what you just said is you know there's a global platform but there's clearly differences between global development and you know global developments in different parts of the world versus domestic development. Can you talk about any differences that you've seen so far or are maybe there aren't maybe are there substantial differences between the global platform and the domestic platform? >> Look, there's there's similarities and their differences. So on the similarity side, the demand and the need are the same with Tik Tok and Instagram media consumption has become pretty homogeneous across the world and so the appetite for for the consumer experience around media and entertainment is just there. What differs is how much infrastructure is already in place both physical infrastructure as well as content distribution to to provide the content globally. So that's that's one area. So second supply chains like processes things of that sort are are increasingly more homogenized. I think we definitely have different varying local regulations that need to be thought about from from from a development perspective, but but the underlying core thesis of of development, developing community and physical infrastructure that benefits the community around sports and entertainment is consistent across the board. And so, um, we think that globally the total addressable market's about a trillion dollars.

(12:11) >> Yeah. You know, we you and I joked about this in our paper. We we said a hundred billion plus dollars and you've always said it's a trillion dollars. And I think it's more likely that your estimate is right than my our original estimate, but more near-term domestic. We're we're long-term global, but uh but but I'm glad you're coming around. >> Yeah, it seems like it's only Yeah, maybe a trillion might be a low ball estimate at this point. But speaking of financing, that's one of the other areas we want to talk about. You you mentioned this before. you are successfully attracted leading entities in the sports space, real estate space to provide capital for what you're doing and you talked about providing capital to these projects. I mean what you're talking about is billions of dollars in capital from so from your perspective one what you know obviously you mentioned Harris Blitzer being an anchor how did you you know secure that relationship but be how do you you know this is something that some of our audiences not to the scale you're talking about but talking to investors raising money for businesses what are some of the things that you think have been successful or led to your success in raising the amount of money that you've been able to raise yeah look at first I think you need a a sounded differentiated business plan in the in the private equity arena.

(13:21) There's definitely more the h haveves and the have nots at this point. Institutional investors are looking for kind of the tried andrue names and then the tried and true names become kind of allocators to the space. That's on kind of the ma on on the mass strategies. Then there then there are the more niche strategies. an area where where we're playing where we have a certain special specialization that doesn't necessarily exist broadly and so that gives us a slightly different proposition so that we can lean more into the halves than into into the nots category but but but look I I mean I think it stems from long-term relationships long extensive track record and expertise building the right cohesive team and and and then having access to the right to the right opportunities and being able to demonstrate both both trust, accountability, and then and then capability. And so we bring we bring all of that and then and then and then it's about getting the right the right partners early on that that kind of believe that can kind of help help facilitate. So, so it's a it's an intricate process, but but it's fun being able to being able to interact with some of the smartest people globally, both both thinking about how to how to implement in their regions and abroad as well as discussing discussing how to allocate capital globally around the strategy is is is exciting and rewarding. But at the end of the day, we're really driven by mission and and just the power of sports and entertainment and the impact that it can have on community and and we're just trying to play our role in it.

(15:05) >> Yeah. I want to get back to the impact on community, but first, you know, you mentioned some of the luminaries, people who are involved, whether Josh Harris, David Blitzer, you know, interacting with people who are obviously at the top of their field, you know, and you know, obviously you are as well. What is it like to interact with those people? What are they looking for? How do you communicate? How do you think about those interactions when you're, you know, obviously so much is at stake and you know that these developments are increasingly becoming such important assets particularly for sports properties?

(15:32) >> Yeah. Look, I I mean I I mean I think it's I think it's twofold. But at the end of the day, everyone's pe like people are people and and you have to personally rel relate to people and and and garner trust on the one hand and then separately like you have to offer something that people that people need and and and be able to demonstrate ability and ability to deliver. And so I think it's a combination of both. And so so we've been been fortunate. I mean with I mean you mentioned Josh and David like that's over 15 that's over 15 plus years of of developing relationships working together demonstrating capability etc. And and I will I will say those are two of the some of the most special individuals in in the world. I mean their their their intellectual capacity as well as their on the one on the one side and their their commitment to their families and their friends on the other.

(16:37) They're just two very special humans that have really demonstrated their their abilities to have an impact on the world both financially as well as humanity from a humanitarian perspective as well. And and then I think it's further demonstrated by their stewardship in in in in their leagues and and really how their their role models across all the leagues that they participate in which is all all five now plus plus the European leagues as well >> and impact is the next point I wanted to get into which is you know you've talked about impacts on communities clearly the work at Splitzer now at SER has substantial impact on communities can you talk about one thing you mentioned is talking to governments and sovereigns can you talk about what are those conversations like how much do they you know would you say get it and how much is convincing like here's what we can do how we can do it and making things happen within you know either communities or you know governments or or you know regional opportunities or national opportunities.

(17:37) >> Sure. Yeah. I mean when I mean when I think about when I think about community builders I I immediately think of church or moth or religion on on the one hand and then and then I take sport. both both are powerful drivers of community. We we're sitting sitting in a moment in time in which there's a lot of uncertainty about how technology will have have an impact on lives, jobs and and and whatnot. But I think if you assembled a panel of AI specialists and had a conversation about live entertainment, they'd all unanimously say that live entertainment is here is is here to stay independent of what robots are controlling or not controlling in the future, right? And so >> and so that's very powerful. The I mean once upon a time we went to a mall and like you would you would go to the movie theater and then afterwards you go to all the infill restaurants or whatever.

(18:34) like there aren't those kind of drivers anymore. Whereas whereas live entertainment remains I mean I might be able to put on a headset and like zoom into an experience. I might be able to see you in that experience and we might be able to interact and see an event, but it still still won't be like sitting and having popcorn and pop and like watching watching a game together like sitting next to each other in an arena or stadium, right? And so I mean it's it's that fundamental underpinning of shared experience which which can be garnered through music and entertainment, live music and live and and live sport. that really is kind of the the underpinninging and and and so so that shared experience is is good for the community. It's it's it's good for it's good for camaraderie. It's good for it's good for social. It's good it it's good it's it's good on so many scales.

(19:31) And then and then just leaving your home and going somewhere where you're going to spend money and spend money on on the retail and spend money at the hotel and spend money on your rent and spend money on is is creating economic flow into the economy. the that that economic activity allows for more jobs and and for more tax revenue and for for things that for things that important to the economy and thus important to the citizens within. And so and so conversations with city state and city state and sovereign is very much about providing services that makes the citizens and fans happy and then and then and then and then adding to or driving driving things that create economic activity and economic output that are also good for for people and and the community. So they're kind of really powerful tools. And so early on I said super size. Well, yeah, the bigger bigger the project the better, the more impactful, the more economic activity.

(20:38) And so we're sitting there having conversations with city, states, and sovereigns about how to how to do anywhere from 5, 10, 20 billion dollar type projects that will drive like huge transformative change in in a positive way. And so the conversations been pretty well received as a result. And you know I do want to kind of you've talked about this global and big and better but a lot of what you know you have to consider and you talking about is local communities right and community leaders even outside the the government structure. How do you guys think about exch you know interacting and engaging with community leaders particularly those in the areas where this impact is going to happen?

(21:19) >> Yeah one of our first hires was someone that focused on public public policy community development etc. You cannot not you cannot lose sight of your neighbors and how they feel and how they'll be integrated into the project. And and so that that requires boots on the ground, lots of meetings, really understanding and aligning with the community for these for these type of projects to be successful and to benefit all the stakeholders. But but but community community first is is is a critical pillar to approaching these projects. >> And I think that's exactly right. Right.

(22:02) Is you have to be able to engage with the community. They have to understand what what's going on and why this is beneficial. And one of the communities that you're looking to expand into recently is colleges and university and university development. One, can you talk about with engaging in those communities if that's different from professional sports communities? And two, like what's the opportunity that you guys see in colleges and universities? >> Look, I'm I'm glad you I'm glad you asked the question. I think I mean I think colleges and universities are are can serve as key roles and pillars of the communities with which they are in and the camaraderie around the sport not only not only the students at the university but everyone in the surround surrounding area is incredible. So the premises that we've talked about are are very very similar on on the university front. And when you look at the university landscape, the the infrastructure is pretty aged and and and so it's really there's really it's it's really a moment in time where there is a catalytic opportunity to to upgrade that sports infrastructure and then to think about the development around it. I again though I fundamentally come back to superers size. So, I mean, I guess I guess I should be paying McDonald's a royalty, but but >> but but but bigger bigger is better. And there is there is really an opportunity to be to be to be thinking bigger, thinking bigger master plans, thinking thinking bigger development projects, etc. And and and and there's a real there's just been a there's been a historic hesitation or or lack of knowhow to do that. And and I and I think that I think that it's not it's not saying, "Hey, we're a campus that has a thousand acres. Let's think about how to use a 100 acres." It's it's really saying, "Hey, let's think about what all that thousand acres will be and how we're going to how we're going to implement that and how we're going to implement that with with one of our core anchors being sports, our sports and entertainment facilities. But then but then let's layer on the learning the learning components the student housing and then integrate the integrate the the mixed the mixed income projects and and and then other component components that can benefit the community around the university as well. And so, so yeah, it's going to be an important important area for us and and and one we're excited on and we've got ton of conversations going on across across the country in the space as well.

(24:38) >> Yeah. One of the things that we've talked about on the podcast is, you know, the intersection of private equity at colleges and universities because that's a a very important topic and mixeduse development is probably one of the best use cases potentially of private equity and institutional capital in college at least from my perspective. one, do you agree with that? And then two, when you talk about leveraging capital sources and going bigger, like what does that mean for a college or university like what is, you know, if you can get the institutional capital or outside capital and development resources, how can you do these superersized projects on colleges and universities?

(25:12) >> So, so I think that I think that there's a real opportunity for private equity in the space. I think that I think that again it comes back to capability and expertise to implement and usually those are separate and distinct. So >> if private equity is an adapt adept at operating but but but development can be different and is a little bit different and and that capability doesn't necessarily lie at least within the big private equity houses so much but it does in certain areas and and so we see it as a ripe opportunity to partner to help deliver on the expertise side. The other thing is is that that the importance of evergreen capital both collegiate and also professional etc.

(26:00) We're talking about long part these the the sports and entertainment assets could be anywhere from 30 to 40 40 years in nature. And so when you're talking about these integrated developments, you want your partner who who's operating them to have a similar duration, horizon, and timeline. don't necessarily want to sit there with a developer build something and then immediately sells it and some as a team or a university you're sitting there going who am I going to interface with now and so and so that's that's that's something that that we think also kind of differentiates us in our approach and strategy but but the universities at hand like as they think bigger with partners like us while We're while we're providing the capital, we're also we're also sharing in some of the profits as well. So that there's alignment and long-term benefit on multiple fronts.

(27:00) >> And one of the differences between colleges and universities and many but not all professional sports team is where they're located, right? A lot of colleges and universities are not in urban areas where professional sports teams are in more urban areas. Can you talk about the differences just from a development perspective and what you think about if if there are between like urban perspect you know urban environments with pre-existing infrastructure versus more not urban environments particularly where colleges and universities typically sit.

(27:28) >> Uh look I I I think that I think that the opportunity set is the same. I I think this the scale might be different. So though we might be talking about around a professional sport or in like a major urban core a multiple billion dollar project size in in some of these other markets we might where we're talking about some universities and kind of outlying areas it might be more in the anywhere from 350 million to a billion. So the projects may be a bit a bit smaller but but the the the impact the the dramatic impact that they can have on their on the surroundings is still remains the same.

(28:09) >> Yeah, that's a good point. And as we're kind of heading towards the end of the conversation, two other topics I wanted to talk about. You know, real estate's obviously has real name. It's considered real assets, but you know, and you mentioned technology, but the technology's impact on these developments has changed, is rapidly growing, rapidly evolving. So how do you see the you know from your perspective how do you integrate technology or technology you know either thought leadership or obviously real technology integrations into these mixed use development. What are you guys looking at from a technology perspective?

(28:39) >> Yeah look I I mean I think it's important to stay at the forefront of what of a cycle that we're experiencing right now that's rapid change. I think technology has a dramatic impact in a host of areas of our business. It can have it on the on the design and construction side. It can have it on the the financial performance side. It can have it uh and then it can have it on the end of the day our our consumer experience. So I would say it's think about it across those three pillars. So if I go back and I this is not a construction. I mean, someday you could and and and you're starting to see this already like like you can leverage you can leverage AI to create master plans, renderings, design docs, etc. I mean, obviously, you still have to rely on partnerships with great architect with great architect firms and great engineering firms, etc.

(29:34) But but but some of the processes are being are are being simplified now with with with AI. At some point on the manufacturing side, you you you could see kind of do dark factory production of materials. You you you could potentially see humanoid type bots contributing to the construction and development process. I mean, I don't think these these trends are happening overnight, but but but we're seeing meaningful steps in each of these of of these areas on the financial analysis side, on the data management side, we're we're implementing systems right now that's facilitating our underwriting processes globally. And then and then as it relates more to the consumerf facing side look AI is a great a great way to scale one to one like like AI enables onetoone interaction effectively which is which is the holy grail. I mean if if I could do every one of my meetings onetoone it it would be great but I'm always looking for one to many so I can get the story story out.

(30:44) No, if I had a AI, I can I could train it and then I can I can replicate that experience for for many people. And so that has an an interesting paradigm for for consumers whether it relates to to catering to their preferences, whether it relates to catering to their retail needs, whether it relates to promotions, whether whether whe and then knowing and then understanding how they act interact with the physical environment. then we can modify, adjust, improve the physical environment accordingly as well. And so so so it's it's pervasive in every aspect of of the business and at the end of the day it can drive a better better consumer experience as well as financial as well as financial efficiency which can drive better better returns as well as returns both from a a return on investment perspective as as as well as just a return to the community and to to the associated experience.

(31:51) >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean the the personalization at scale assume at some point there'll be a John Facetelli AI agent that can have more of these one-on-one conversations but on your behalf. But one of the things I did you mention is how technology does potentially or the artificial intelligence or this level of personalization does impact the building process pot or potentially impact the building process. I don't know if there's specific examples where you saw either, you know, you're historically or or as you're thinking about new developments now where you've seen, you know, some of either leveraging AI or leveraging large data sets that's impacted the way you think about how these developments can come on live from a live, work, play, shop perspective.

(32:29) >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean I was I just came back from Asia where where I was on a panel with at Milin talking about the future of sports marketing and on the panel was was a woman from IBM and we were talking about how we process how we process large data sets to really understand customer preference and experience and how we could think about it both both spatially as as well as from a transactional perspective. And so as we as we increasingly have more data to pull and we can have a and a better understanding of the individuals coming through, we can think about how we're how we're positioning our retail tenants and what we're offering in our hotels, how we're thinking about our outdoor advertising, etc. So it creates it creates really a 360 a 360 experience that's better for the consumer but it's also more optimized for us as landlord as well as for our tenants >> and then from you've mentioned this before and I you know I believe in this too but that the actual rise of artificial intelligence is going to increase the appetite for in real life experiences and those type of experiences can be shaped by data or technology you know what as we're kind of winding in a obviously that's a thesis that seems to be central to surge is like there's this cool intersection of technology data and you know real assets but how do you think of that how do you communicate that and how do you you know kind of let that be if it is a guiding force on kind of what you're doing >> well I think I think that I think putting putting aside putting aside policy disclosures and whatnot that that you have to con convey to consumers if you're collecting or using information which obviously obvious obviously any any of any of those required are required but but fun but fundamentally at the end of the day the the consumer that's having that's having the experience wants the highest and greatest experience and and putting again putting aside public putting aside private privacy policy, >> right?

(34:47) >> The consumer the consumer is just looking for the best experience. They're not thinking about how am I being handed this experience. So, so and and us as developer, landlord, operator, owner of these multi-billion dollar cities is is thinking about how do how do we make the people that live with in them the happiest and and give them the greatest utility. And so it's less about it's less about the communication of how and it's more about having the kind of the right underlying plumbing to deliver it >> efficiently. And and I think where where AI really comes in is is rather than like an old school approach of surveying people and getting a sense of their wants, needs, and likes. Like now we're looking at we're we're we can analyze and predict their behaviors and patterns based upon huge amounts of data sets and then give them more of a customized experience that's going to leave them feeling happier and more satisfied. Whe whether they need to know the ins and outs of how it's done like again putting aside privacy policy because that's essential but but doesn't really matter.

(36:00) And so and so we're just trying to make we just try and focus on making the experiences as as seamless as and integrated as possible. And we think about how do we extend their journey from the ballpark to their home to their office to their restaurants and dining and and whatnot. Just be as seamless and as desirable as as possible. And then we try and reduce any of the friction cost in in between so that it's much more efficient so that it can be priced better for for the consumer and so that it can it can remain profitable for the investor. >> Yeah, I think that's a really good point about leveraging large data sets again in a privacy compliant way is to make the experience better, right? I mean that's data, technology, experience working together to create better experiences for everybody who's involved and that can be all the people you mentioned so far. that could be the the properties, the fans, the tourists, the rights, you know, the partners, community, the government. This is what big data can really do and it can really move beyond survey data to really behavioral based data or what you know in our parl and the data side is behavioral graphs where you can really understand what people are looking for.

(37:13) And one terrible way I describe this instead of the field of dreams, build it and they will come build what they want so they want to come, right? It's like build the things that are interesting and make people happy and this is a unique opportunity that sports has because of the interest in mixed use developments to make all of these stakeholders happy and obviously you're at the forefront of doing that. So after that's a little I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that or if there's anything you wanted to put or if there's anything else you wanted to from that perspective because then one final question we have for you after that but just wanted to see if you agreed or if there's anything from that perspective you wanted to add.

(37:46) >> No, I look I I agree. I agree. I mean, we've we've had these conversations before. We're pretty we're pretty aligned. I think that I think I think they h you that you have to be at the forefront. You have to be at the forefront of technology and technology implementation to to make sure that these projects that can take anywhere from 5 to 15 years to see throughation are at the forefront as well. And we're talking about massive investment in infrastructure and so that that will last centuries. And so say demo better be at the forefront of technology to make sure that you're that that your investment is for the long term and not just the near term.

(38:26) >> Yeah. The complete alignment there. So last question which we asked all of our guests. You mentioned that you're you have 140 folks working for you either directly or indirectly. You're hiring people quickly. We have a lot of members of our audience who are either trying to get into sports, trying to get their first jobs in sports or finance. what when you're looking to hire folks and as they're pursuing their career journey what are you looking for from people how do you you know how do you determine if these people would be a good fit for Surge how do you you know how would they be potentially a good fit for them to progress in their career within your organization what are the qualities and characteristics you look for in hiring folks either at more junior positions or more senior positions >> well the first my my first and biggest thing is reach out reach I mean reach out like do your research do your research on the reach out to different pe to a host of different people within the organization. Like you can get a first call. It's it's amazing how many people say, "Oh, I want to go do this." But don't necessarily reach out. And I'm I for one personally try and have as many conversations as I can have with anyone because my I view my view is you learn from you learn something from everyone.

(39:36) And so and one and two and two people like you pay it forward. So, so people people generally are inclined to want to help people and and if you're and and if you're interested in the sports space like get in wherever you can either well it's two approaches either get in wherever you can which works well because these teams etc like they're be they're they're incredible training grounds to to learn or alternatively if there's a specialized area you want to go into figure out where to get the training first and and then and and and then make the phone calls and reach out and and get inside. So, I mean, there's really two approaches, but fundamentally at the end of the day, sports sports industry more than any industry is focused on teamwork, leadership skills, uh like everything that you see on the field or on the court, right? And and so if if if you reach out to the to the right, if you reach out, if you present yourself well, if if you show a sound understanding of what you're looking for, etc., you're going to find a whole host of people that want to help you because at the end of the day, fundamental is is is teamwork and growing that teamwork. So So that's that's one. And then the other is is energy like like just high like sports are high energy and the people in it are generally high energy, too. And so like demonstrate that energy. But if you're interested in in sports and entertainment real estate, reach out.

(41:05) Whether it's me or someone in the organization, we'd be happy happy to happy to talk about it. And if there's an immediate fit, great. And if not, we'll we'll certainly give you guidance and kind of help you on on your on your way. But uh life's long and and be good to everyone you meet along the way. Yeah, that's a good message to end the podcast on and appreciate you being open to having the conversations with members of our audience. So, John, thank you for the time. Thank you for the insights and thank you for being a guest on the revenue bub replacement podcast.

(41:34) >> Thanks for having me, Adam. This was awesome. Appreciate you.